mu

So, as you probably already heard, researchers in the Netherlands found out some interesting things about one of our (supposed) cosmological constants. Mu, or better known as the proton-electron ratio (1836.1526726, meaning a proton is 1836.1526726 times as massive as an electron) . . . some evidence exists to suggest that this ratio has varied by 0.002% over the past 12 billion years. Observing spectral lines of molecular hydrogen in laboratories and comparing them to the absorption lines of starlight from distant quasars, which took 12 billion years to reach us (and correcting for various factors -- such as the frequency that changes as light travels to earth), it appears as though mu has decreased by 0.002%. Could Einstein be wrong? Does string theory hold all the answers? Some variations of string theory allow for mu to change, and it relates to the presence of extra dimensions. In any case, a mu that changes would seem to have major theoretical implications for our most basic understanding of the universe. I was hoping maybe Fearless Virgin could offer some of her input, as she is knowledgeable in this field of science.

[Fearless™]

What? Prettz...This is SOOOOO UNFAIR!!! You know I don't really know anything about this

Originally Posted by Prettz

So, as you probably already heard, researchers in the Netherlands found out some interesting things about one of our (supposed) cosmological constants. Mu, or better known as the proton-electron ratio (1836.1526726, meaning a proton is 1836.1526726 times as massive as an electron) . . . some evidence exists to suggest that this ratio has varied by 0.002% over the past 12 billion years. Observing spectral lines of molecular hydrogen in laboratories and comparing them to the absorption lines of starlight from distant quasars, which took 12 billion years to reach us (and correcting for various factors -- such as the frequency that changes as light travels to earth), it appears as though mu has decreased by 0.002%. Could Einstein be wrong? Does string theory hold all the answers? Some variations of string theory allow for mu to change, and it relates to the presence of extra dimensions. In any case, a mu that changes would seem to have major theoretical implications for our most basic understanding of the universe. I was hoping maybe Fearless Virgin could offer some of her input, as she is knowledgeable in this field of science.

****ing hell, I nearly Died could not breath.

Stfu you confuse people, because most these ****s on forum are stupid.

Originally Posted by Fearless_Virgin

What? Prettz...This is SOOOOO UNFAIR!!! You know I don't really know anything about this

I'm sure Prettz was just being facetious!

But regarding these findings ...

There seems to be a deductive leap that's absent here. Okay, so the Mu has decreased in (mass? frequency?), but there's nothing in the post that explains WHY those researchers would conclude that there are extra dimensions, or why their findings would bolster string theory/M-theory, etc.

Are they postulating that a changing Mu is due to influence from other dimensions?

No, mu is a ratio, not a mass or a frequency. Ratios don't have units. The researchers didn't conclude anything; rather they plan on taking precise measurements of starlight from other quasars, and hoping other researchers will do the same to validate their findings. All I said was if mu is not constant, then Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong. I also said some versions of string theory allow for a changing mu, which is NOT to say the researchers concluded that there are extra dimensions. This is just one published account of their findings, it's too early to conclude anything as of yet, even the author of the publication said that. I was just trying to spark some discussion related to our current and future perspectives on our understanding of physics.

[LifeMaker]

Originally Posted by Prettz

No, mu is a ratio, not a mass or a frequency. Ratios don't have units. The researchers didn't conclude anything; rather they plan on taking precise measurements of starlight from other quasars, and hoping other researchers will do the same to validate their findings. All I said was if mu is not constant, then Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong. I also said some versions of string theory allow for a changing mu, which is NOT to say the researchers concluded that there are extra dimensions. This is just one published account of their findings, it's too early to conclude anything as of yet, even the author of the publication said that. I was just trying to spark some discussion related to our current and future perspectives on our understanding of physics.

i haven't heard anything about that. anyway i dont think that Einstein's Theory will be wrong if the researchers confirm what they said .i also heard that einstein was talking about an extra dimension and he said that it was the time. i didn't get why the theory would be wrong if the the researchers conclusions will be confirmed, so please explain it.anyway im *googling* to get more information.

Originally Posted by Prettz

No, mu is a ratio, not a mass or a frequency. Ratios don't have units. The researchers didn't conclude anything; rather they plan on taking precise measurements of starlight from other quasars, and hoping other researchers will do the same to validate their findings. All I said was if mu is not constant, then Einstein's theory of relativity is wrong. I also said some versions of string theory allow for a changing mu, which is NOT to say the researchers concluded that there are extra dimensions. This is just one published account of their findings, it's too early to conclude anything as of yet, even the author of the publication said that. I was just trying to spark some discussion related to our current and future perspectives on our understanding of physics.

Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying that their findings were merely preliminary.

I evidently misread your original post and assumed Mu itself was some type of particle/string, when in fact it represents the ratio itself, already based on mass--protons vs electrons.

Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by LifeMaker

i haven't heard anything about that. anyway i dont think that Einstein's Theory will be wrong if the researchers confirm what they said .i also heard that einstein was talking about an extra dimension and he said that it was the time. i didn't get why the theory would be wrong if the the researchers conclusions will be confirmed, so please explain it.anyway im *googling* to get more information.

It's important not to think of time as another dimension, Lifemaker.

The more accurate term would be "spacetime" since the two are directly connected. And while time is still often considered the 4th dimension, it is influenced by mass/gravity. Any massive object (be it a molecule or a star) warps the fabric of spacetime around it. Yes, even you!

Thus, as you approach something of incredible mass--like a black hole--time slows to a crawl. In fact, it's been established mathematically that time doesn't exist at the singularity (the focal point of a black hole), where mass is infinite.

You might also consider (if you aren't familiar with the research already)Googling Air Force experiments from the 19(50's?), where they used atomic clocks to demonstrate that the faster an object moves through space, the less time passes for that object.

The point is, these "dimensions" are not separate at all, but interconnected.

What these Dutch researchers are contemplating, however, is whether or not there exist dimensions OUTSIDE of the four dimensions as we understand them.

I hope this was somewhat helpful, and if I underestimated your knowledge of physics, please accept my apology in advance! :

[Western_Samurai]

They can do correction for 12 billion light years of travel but they can't convert the units correctly for a travel to Mars...oh well. With regards to the thread, string theory has been proving more reliable in recent times than other theories anyways. This is just another step in that trend.

Btw...I can't believe ppl find this a more interesting topic than the implications of the double slit experiment. I even had a video explaining my topic...-sighs-

Originally Posted by Western_Samurai

They can do correction for 12 billion light years of travel but they can't convert the units correctly for a travel to Mars...oh well.

Agreed. Of course, MANNED spaceflights would merely require a simple course correction. We're just exploring space from our living rooms these days. *sigh*

Originally Posted by Western_Samurai

With regards to the thread, string theory has been proving more reliable in recent times than other theories anyways. This is just another step in that trend.

Agreed again.

Originally Posted by Western_Samurai

Btw...I can't believe ppl find this a more interesting topic than the implications of the double slit experiment.

Are you referring to the dual nature of light (behaving as both wave and particle)? Or perhaps the "tachyon-like" behavior photons seem to exhibit at times?

Both?