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SUPERFIGHT: MARCIANO vs ALI, WHO WAS THE GREATEST?
Old 08-05-2006, 12:02 AM   #1
"IRISH" RUFUS MURPHY
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Default SUPERFIGHT: MARCIANO vs ALI, WHO WAS THE GREATEST?

In 1967 a man by the name of Murray Woroner came up with the seemingly outrageous idea of settling the question of "Who was the greatest boxer of all time?" with the use of the National Cash Register computer (NCR-315) of Dayton, Ohio to determine the winner between fighters from the past and present---using 129 different variables ranging from power, speed, ring generalship and how well each fighter could take a punch; using great mathematical formulas to generate the numbers of who would punch when and where.

Woroner put together 16 names for the trumpeted "All-Time Heavyweight" championship tournament, with such matches as Jack Dempsey vs Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali vs Max Schmeling until there were two competitors left to fight it out, to determine who was the greatest Heavyweight of all time.

Muhammad Ali at the time had his Heavyweight title stripped from him, for not enlisting into the Armed forces, making him undefeated at 29-0 with 24 knockouts. Ali said prior to the tournament that if the computer was at all legit, that it would have him beat every single man he was placed against in the tournament, because he felt that he was the greatest of all times. He had made 9 successful title defenses before his title was taken away from him, and he was by far and since then, considered the fastest Heavyweight that ever lived.

In Ali's second fight in the tournament he lost a decision to James J. Jefferies, a man who had retired undefeated who could take tremendous punihsment and had powerful punching ability, though deemed as being a plodder. Ali was so enraged by his loss that he threatened to sue Murray Woroner for $1,000,000 for defamation. Woroner managed to talk the ex-champion down and struck a deal, that the tournament would go to it's conclusion and Ali would square off against the crowned "All-Time" Heavyweight champion and that Ali would be paid $10,000 as well as get a share of the profits.

The winner of the "All-Time" Heavyweight tournament was undefeated Heavyweight champion Rocky Marciano, who won by KO in the 15th round over Jack Dempsey. Woroner awarded Marciano an actual $10,000 diamond and gold encrusted championship belt.

Woroner then came up with a great idea. Why not have these two men actually square off in the ring, film it, and broadcast it across the world for one night only? Marciano agreed to do so, as did Ali. Marciano was 46 years old and was 60 pounds over his fighting weight, as he had been retired for nearly 15 years. Possibly the most conditioned athlete in the world in his prime, Marciano trained down to 195 pounds, and trained as hard, if not harder, than most active heavyweights do for a legit fight.

Ali was 27 years old, and was still in his prime. He felt that he didn't need to train as hard as Marciano did, because he figured he would have no problem whatsoever with a man twenty years his senior. Woroner told the men before hand that the computer would determine the blows, that no actual fighting would take place, but the men needed to spar what the computer said that they should do.

Marciano wouldn't go into the fight that way, even at 46 he had to feel that if suddenly the punches became real, that he would be ready to win; both men agreed that punches to the head would be pulled, but body shots were given the go, it would be legit punches thrown to the body. The two men sparred well over 75 one minute rounds, then those rounds were spliced into three minute rounds---some Ali winning, some Marciano winning, some were dead even.

Seven potential endings were filmed for the fight: TKO and decision wins for Ali, KO and decision wins for Marciano, a draw etc. The producers had to be ready, as nobody knew who or what outcome the computer would pick to win. Several stories came from out of these sessions, with credible eye witnesses such as Ferdie Pacheco, Murray Woroner and even Angello Dundee, who said that there were times when Ali took such a battering to the body that Ali either demanded more money for the punishment he was taking, that Ali was doubled over from a body shot, that Ali was dropped by a body shot---after Ali had knocked Marciano's wig off his head.

The bout was filmed in secret in a Miami gym. When filming was wrapped, everybody waited for the January 20th date as to when the fight would come in theatres, to see who would win. Nobody, not even Marciano and Ali, knew who was going to win this fight. Tragically, Marciano never saw the fight on film, as he died in an air plane crash just three weeks after the "super fight" was completed.

Many people before seeing this fight had honestly believed that Marciano and Ali had really fought eachother, not that a computer determined the winner. It was so amazing how divided the world was in opinion of this fight, as many believed that Marciano, 46 years old or not, would have a great chance at beating Muhammad Ali. People literally were screaming in the theatres, couldn't believe their eyes at what they were seeing, that Ali and Marciano were really facing off.

The early rounds show-cased the best of each, Ali dancing and landing his long left jab, Marciano crouching and dodging shots and working his way inside. In round 5 Marciano was cut, and the bleeding wouldn't stop for the duration of the fight. Marciano was dropped in the 8th round, his eyes cut as well as his nose. Many were crossing their fingers that the fight wouldn't get called off.

Marciano dug down deep and started to bring the pressure on, dropping Ali in the 10th, and also dropping him in the 11th round. The fight was dead even on the computer score cards, but Marciano was in grave danger of having the fight stopped from the constant bleeding. The doctor checked his cuts, but decided they were not serious enough to cause permanent injury and let the fight continue. Marciano, as he did in many of his fights in his prime years, quickened the pace when in this serious of situations.

In the 13th round Marciano let loose with bombs and tremendous body punches, never stopping to give Ali a chance, and dropped Ali with a solid left hook for the whole count of 10! Marciano, by the determination of the computer, was still the "All-Time" Heavyweight champion.

Ali would later comment "That computer must have been manufactured in Alabama!" in disgust to how he lost to Marciano. But Ali was genuinely serious when he reflected on his fight with Marciano, saying even in his own autobiography that he was surprised that even at 46, how difficult it was to hit Marciano with a jab, and that he couldn't imagine facing Marciano in his prime because the man hit so hard and was so strong.

Though critics still argue that the computer was wrong, and still waste saliva over who was the better fighter, the computer was correct, in the sense that it would take a man who cut the ring down, fought from the inside, who was strong and fought from a crouch, to beat Muhammad Ali----and Joe Frazier proved it, when he faced Muhammad Ali and Frazier was always referred to as "The Black Marciano".

Who was the greatest? Who knows. All we can go by are records, and Rocky Marciano, still after 50 years since he retired in 1956, is still the only Heavyweight champion to have retired undefeated at 49-0 with 43 knock outs, and nobody has been close enough to topple that particular record. It is a magic number in boxing, as is Babe Ruth's home run record is, with 60 home runs in a season. It's legendary.

Last edited by "IRISH" RUFUS MURPHY; 08-05-2006 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 08-07-2006, 02:37 PM   #2
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ali............is better then anyone
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Old 08-09-2006, 10:50 PM   #3
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http://www.*******.com/watch?v=qIBAnzlGLTg


Here is a short clip from the 1969 Marciano vs Ali computer-fight, it's only a minute long, but I hope everyone can enjoy this rare footage, with the two men actually squaring off with eachother.
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Old 08-10-2006, 12:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "IRISH" RUFUS MURPHY View Post
http://www.*******.com/watch?v=qIBAnzlGLTg


Here is a short clip from the 1969 Marciano vs Ali computer-fight, it's only a minute long, but I hope everyone can enjoy this rare footage, with the two men actually squaring off with eachother.

The great......Ali is totaly and clearly Better then Marciano
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Old 08-12-2006, 09:08 PM   #5
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Yea but your judging Marciano when he is 46 years old, and they were more or less sparring for the benefit of the computer fight---which Marciano won by KO in 13 rounds.

By Ali's on testimony he cou;dn't believe how hard it was to land a solid punch on Marciano, nor could he imagine how Marciano must have been like in his prime because even at 46 years old Marciano hit Ali with some viscous body shots, and Ali even asked for extra money and a few days off from filming because Marciano had injured Ali's arms and body.

Marciano's style was to get as low as he possibly could and cut off the ring, and get his man trapped and go to the body and then to the head---hit you anywhere he could to wear his opponent down---and ironically the computer was right, in the aspect that it would take the style of Marciano to beat Muhammad Ali---as Ali did lose to Joe Frazier, who was often dubbed 'the black Marciano' because he fought "The Rock's" style of fighting.

Ali did manage to avenge his loss to Frazier, and also fought him in 1975 in the "Thrilla in Manila", where both men beat eachother so badly that Ali said "I never felt so close to dying." It was Marciano's style that made those fights so brutal---and mind you most historians and boxing experts rate Marciano head and shoulders over Joe Frazier.

A Marciano win over Ali is not out of the question if the two men fought prime for prime.
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Old 08-12-2006, 09:11 PM   #6
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Rocky .. Rocky .. Rocky.

How can you argue with an undefeated record?


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